Uhm, I was a group that started this land co-op. (Okay.) And it, and I, and it was like a whole group of people, big group of people that were trying to start, that wanted to start, uh… y’know, intentional communities. And then we broke off into smaller groups in terms o’ what people were interested in.

And I really went with my friends. (Mhmm.) And what they were interest in, too, for sure. (Hmm.) But they’re friends that they were all women, and they wanted to, uhm… … do land together. And they weren’t separatists. Although one of them was kind of a separatist. But they were open to having, y’know, if people had, uh, male children on the land or, y’know, that kinda thing. But they could never be members. And it was like, it’s all different now. (Mhmm.) And I didn’t leave there because of my gender, like, it became that the, the land evolved to including more genders ‘Cause they couldn’t get, they couldn’t get, uhm, just women. Yeah they had a hard time with finding women to keep growing the community.

We all wanted to live in the bush by our - either by ourselves or, or, some of ‘em liked to live with others. But none of us had enough to money to big enough, to buy a big enough piece where you, where you didn’t know who your neighbours were or, y’know, dah dah dah. So, for me, I had no, like, I didn’t, I wasn’t, I didn’t have any inkling that this is what I always wanted to do in my life. In fact I wanted to live in the bush alone. Even before I had met my partner when we moved to the Kootenays I wanted to live in a cabin on the ocean by myself. (Hmm.) And in hindsight it, it, was better for me to live in community. Like, live by myself but have, know who my neighbours were and to do it together.

Elise: Y’know, I said that I had an archive of lesbian oral testimony, and, and, and, if people feel their stories belong there, then we put them there. And you said you did feel that your story belonged there. (Mhmm.) So, which, having talked to you, actually kind of surprises me a little bit! So I feel like I wanna ask you well, why do you feel that it belongs there? Like, how is this a part of … I mean, I see how it is. (Yeah.) I see how it is, right? But I want you to tell me how you see. (Uh-huh) How do you, how does your story - this story that you’ve shared with me - exist in relationship to…

Christopher: Well I think because, uhm, it’s where I found love and community. (Hmm.) Love and… community. Like, even though I… never called myself a lesbian, I searched out comunity to… find community. And that’s where it was. Like, I’ve lived in queer culture my whole life. For, for those reasons. For community reasons, and friendships, and love. And so that’s why I feel it belongs.

Elise: So you, so you use the F to M, which, which was a thing not that long ago, (Yeah.) but nobody uses that anymore. (No.) Are you glad that’s gone? Or d’you, do you prefer trans or do you miss that? Do you have any nostalgia for F to M?

Christopher: Uhm… t’s a good question. I dunno if I have nostalgia about it, but it was a, a good, I like the term because it was … uhm… because all of a sudden there was like, lots of FTMs, where, y’know, before my first experience was always trans women. (Right.) That was all I saw in the world, and Christine Jorgenson. (Yeah.) It’s like, I have memories of them bein’ on the news. And Renee Richards, and (Wow.) and what the disgust, the even though my parents were okay with me being a trans, they were still adults y’know that it was disgusting, or it was the… (Yeah.) Y’know, it was just like, my par-my folks are also Republicans, so… (Hmm.) Y’know. (Yeah.) Dah dah dah, and Christians. Uhm… so, I think, at the time, and then when people started dissecting it and started really looking at it “Was I ever female to begin with?” and dah dah dah… and that, that makes sense. And even before I used FTM, I used the word transsexual. (Ah.) And I used that a lot because it was a real hard thing for me to say. It was real, like I had a lotta stigma, myself. (Transsexual.) Yeah. (Yeah.) Like, a real, uhm… it was kinda like when I first started using the word “queer” people weren’t using that. (Right.) Like it was way back in the 70s I started using that. (Oh, yeah.) Yeah. And then I quickly, I also went and did.. but it was also for the shock effect, I think. (Yeah.) In some ways I was using it just internally with my own friends and stuff, (Yeah.) uhm, but uh…

Christopher: … and the transsexual piece, ‘cause it was a hard… I had, uh… … yeah. I had a difficult time, I think, uhm… loving myself in that place, I’ll say. (Yeah.) Yeah. Being okay with it so I tried to use it, and I tried to use it more. I, I don’t anymore. I used trans, or I don’t… sometimes I don’t even say I’m trans. [chuckles] (Yeah.) But I’m not hiding anything. (Yeah.) But, y’know, language is fascinating to me. It’s, it’s saved my life, and helped me fly. (Yeah.) Uhm, and so I know how important it is. Yeah.